Transfer Machinations and How Ready Will Arsenal Be?

Elliot Smith0:33Look, I don't know what you're making of this summer, but if all we've learned this summer is that Arsenal can be good at penalty shootouts now, that might be enough. This is the ArsenalVision Podcast. My name is Ellie Smithy Blackman, Judge Ant Gunner. Yeah. If all we've done this summer is perfect penalty shootouts, that could be enough to get us that one step further this upcoming season. And Christos Tzolis, you are in line for taking the penalty. I will also say that the game against Como had a nice side effect of making me less angry that Noni didn't take a penalty in Budapest. Because now I now I feel like maybe that was the correct decision. So that's all good. A f a fun day out, some fun things, some things to work on. Not much going on in the transfer rumor mill, so we can focus on the football, which is what everybody wants. Nobody actually wants transfers. They want football. Or do I have that backwards? I don't know. App is live, voting is up. Kepper Rita Balaga running away with the stocks falling this summer. So kudos to him. He's several hundred votes ahead of the next closest person. Would love it if you'd check out the apps and the Android version that that has full Patreon login should be should be up and running. Tim and I did a full power rankings episode. Tim did some phenomenal research and kudos to you, Tim, on all of our quote unquote rivals, the teams that are competing to finish behind us. And so we did the power rankings of all of the

Elliot Smith1:53All the teams that are competing to finish behind Arsenal. And and it was fun. So I'd love for you to check that out. We'll have our season prediction episodes next week. Clive's favorite. I'm sure he's probably already figuring that out, running the numbers, double checking them. So lots of good stuff coming. And more than anything, just want to say thanks for being here. With new season ahead, it means it's almost time for new music. And that means there's gonna be a lot of unhappy listeners. So before that happens, let me just tell you we absolutely love you and we really appreciate you being here. Please don't leave just because the music changed. So now that the housekeeping's done I can say hello, Clive.

Clive Palmer2:25Yeah, love that.

Elliot Smith2:27And hello, Tim. All right, look, lots to get to. I want to start with what I think is the story around Arsenal that that has people chatting a little bit before we get into the game and some of the performances, and there's a lot of interesting stuff there. But it's the Myles Lewis-Skelly thing. He got a huge ovation when he was announced at the start of the game. He scored the goal. I thought he looked pretty bright. He gave the heart symbol to everyone at the Emirates after he scored. Clive, th I think there are two types of well, three types of rumors, right, in the transfer world. One is the rumor is right, the facts are right, everybody knows the accurate information, and there's really no subterfuge whatsoever. When Manchester City just sell to Johnny Reinders for however much money they want to a club and just, off offload their trash for as much money as they want. That that's easy. There's the type of rumors where some random ITK has just made some shit up and it was never true. And then there's that gray area in between, where there's some truth to something. But not everybody's on the same page about what that is, and nobody's super sure of it. And the Myles thing maybe fit fits that middle zone. He was linked. I will say linked is maybe too strong. There were rumors that he had been offered to Chelsea, maybe had previously been offered to United. Those rumors didn't go down well, as you can imagine. Very popular Academy kid who was critical to the way our season ended. A player I'd love to see stay at Arsenal. But I'm curious what you made of Myles' day at the Emirate.

Elliot Smith3:52It felt like a day where he was center stage and we could talk about what Mikel said in a moment.

Clive Palmer3:58Yeah, he was centre stage and when he when his name was announced my watch got set off, right? He got the loudest cheer. So and yeah, there is there's an emotional side to this and there's a business side to this. And we have to be we have to be adult about this, right? So the emotional side, we want all the young Academy kids to stay and play and play in the first team and then just add to our depth and we're all comfortable with that and there'll be nobody that doesn't want to see that. But there's a business side to this as well. Let's let's just focus on the maybe the business strategy behind this. And this needs a little bit of thinking through. And it's not about agreeing whether he stays or not. It's about thinking, well, why miles? Think that through. That's what I did anyway. Why miles? Obviously the new squad cost ratio rules are coming in and we spent a lot of money last year, didn't sell well. Shock arsehole don't sell well. And eventually there's gonna be a price to pay with that. And I think we all knew somebody that we like would end up going or potentially could end up going. If you want flexibility in the market late in the window, which we all agree, this window is not complete. No team is complete, no team is ready. World cuts come along. The last two weeks this window is gonna be like nothing we've seen before. And so to achieve you what you want to achieve, or you can potentially be part of your strategy, whether you think that strategy is reactive pro or proactive, doesn't really matter. You need to find out.

Clive Palmer5:23What options are out there for players that you may need to sell. So what concerns me is that this is something that probably happens all the time, but it doesn't really leak out. And that tells me that we're not operating like we used to operate. We're operating in the clumsy way. And this is really, really bad for PR. And then this is there's the flip side to this coin, right? There's so many angles this Elliot. Please stop me or interrupt me if you think I'm going on right. But think Yeah,

Elliot Smith5:46No, you just go. You just go.

Clive Palmer5:49The flip side to this coin, right? So when we bought Bruno Guimarães, everyone goes, what a player, what a player, what a player. W there's gonna be there's always a cost for someone coming in, right? So everyone wants this player, but what's the potential cost? Well Norgard goes out, we're gonna be better. Well think this for a little bit deeper, right? Last year we played four midfielders in this position, lower in the in the team, with Zub Mendy, Rice, Norgard, and it ended up being Lewis-Skelly, right? So four for two, right? So that fourth midfielder did not play any minutes. So think about it from a squad efficiency point of view. Think about returning players and positional changes of those players. So Eze now is developing, if you look at the World Cup, he's developing into an interior midfielder rather than an exterior midfielder. We know he can do it, but he's developing into an interior midfielder. Mikel Merino's back in the room. World Cup finalist. Right? So and he's 30 years of age, who can play in the interior. So what you do, if you're thinking strategy is.

Clive Palmer6:53You look at your four midfielders, and the fourth role was non-existent minute wise last year. So what you do is you take that player out, the one that's got the best fiscal value for you, and you use that fourth midfielder between two or three players. And they think about the minutes of Odegaard, the minutes of Merino, the minutes of Eze. They could sweep that role up. You get your profit. And you use that money to allow you to do your to-do list. On that to-do list, by the way, new contract for the manager, higher wages. New contract for Declan Rice, higher wages. New contract for Urian Timber, higher wages. Kimur has come in. He hasn't come in on a bargain. Right? So you have to think about our to-do list, what we need to achieve, and think about how we're going to achieve it. Now the peripheral players on the edge of the squad. Nelson and Vieira and Jesus, they're not bringing in money. It's the biggest offer we have for Martinelli is thirty-five million pounds. Okay, six million quid, so there's a bit of profit there. Something's going to happen. You choose where it's gonna go, but something's going to happen and something needs to happen. Because regulation is king and this is where we need to sober up and think about the fact.

Clive Palmer8:16We have a very large squad, a couple of people in overcoats last season when the squad was all fit. We need to make sales. It's critical. The anger for me is the way we're operating. I don't want to see clumsy reachers into the market where everyone knows what we're about. That looks bad. And we become talk sport fodder for two, three days, and we open ourselves up to criticism and we're in a PR war to crush something down, to settle things down. That's not Arsenal, that's rubbish. Right? So whether you agree with this player being told the player that that's player preference, that's what you like. Why don't you sell him? Why don't you sell him? We'll have that discussion. But the way Arsenal operate is indicative of their values that they operate within. And that stuff is important to me. Because that's something that's sustainable over time. Right? So regardless of the players involved and the people working in the club, etc. So that's the bit where I have a concern. And that's the bit. Where we've seen organizational change at Arsenal since last summer where I felt we operate quite well. And now it's about judging what the new team are doing. And that was always my position with this. And that's so far, with two weeks ago. We're doing okay, but there's there's work to do. Is that okay, Elliot?

Elliot Smith9:30I think that makes sense. Just to be clear, I 'cause I think people will be reading between the lines and I'd prefer that you just say it outright. Would you sell Myles?

Clive Palmer9:42It's not about selling miles. It's not about what I want to do. It's about recognizing what we have to do as a club. Right? So I'd rather see all the other players go that need to go at really good prices. But what if they don't? What if we don't get the offers? What do we have to do then? It's about being realistic. And I start this conversation off by saying everybody wants these players to stay, the Academy kids, and everyone wants them to play in the first team. That's what everybody wants emotionally. There's the business side to this. And you tell me the options that we could have to make this all add up.

Elliot Smith10:17You've triggered a few thoughts in my mind. First of all, last night was basically a showcase of players that absolutely have to leave. That have no role to play at Arsenal. Gabriel Jesus is a player I have immense soft spot for, and I've people know that for years. The game has left him. It really has. It does not look like he has much football left in him. Certainly not at our level. Fabio Vieira has to go, right? Keparita Blago, if you can move him, you move him, but he I don't think he's gonna play much this season, on the basis of the summer. Those players obviously have to go. I think to your point, Clive. People can accept maybe you have to take the quote pure profit. There there's that phrase, pure profit on Myles, if you're bringing in a Vinny Jr. What they can accept is if you're doing that, then you get a Illumin and Jai on deadline day, or a Rashford loan or something. The other thing I ironically, Cloud, you triggered for me to realize is we have to get Declan Rice a new contract, so on and so forth. Well, now that everybody knows what we were gonna give Vinny Jr. Declan Rice's people have a right to go in and say, how's 500 grand a week sound? Because you had that money aligned up for Vinny. He didn't show up, so we know that money's available. So good luck to Arsenal figuring that one out. But Tim, I might as well get your thoughts on this as well. I think all of us obviously would prefer to see the Hale End kids have a big long career at Arsenal. And I think we have gone completely mental and forgetting what 19 years old is and the development of a central midfielder for a winger. That can actually be prime for some young players, but for midfielders and defenders like Marley Salmon, it's still a child.

Elliot Smith11:41Like I said, if you've got big transfer plans and you're gonna make a splash and you're gonna bring in something exciting and someone you love has to go to make that happen, I think fans can tolerate that. They're they're probably gonna be less excited about that happening when it doesn't look like there's necessarily a plan to execute on that.

Tim Stillman11:59Yeah, for me, I wouldn't sell Myles because I think he'd be a real I think he's going to be a really valuable member of the squad. I'd be I said this in the live show in Dublin. I think there's a hot take that Zubimendi is maybe the person you move if you have to make a sale. You don't want to because

Elliot Smith12:18If it's one or the other. Yeah.

Tim Stillman12:20Well, yeah, because if he doesn't play as much next season, that will be viewed as. A continuation of a decline from where he was and how valuable will he be? You you could make an argument that he's more valuable this summer. That's I'm not saying that's firmly what I think. Go and sell Zimbabwe. But I think there's a world in which that makes more sense, perhaps than selling miles, because to your point, it actually looks like we've got a bit of a pipeline going in terms of Bruno Guimarães just come in. He's going to 29 in November. That's a couple of years signing. If get Konsa, I'll come on to that in a minute. I really think that's going to happen. I think it's going to happen soon. He's 28 as well and Marley Salmon sitting there. So you've got you can say to Myles and Marley Salmon, yeah, we have signed guys in your position, but they're 28 and 29 years old. You've got a particularly like and like you said, Myles is 19. If he was 22 or 23, yeah. OK, you perhaps think I can't wait forever.

Tim Stillman13:21We've got Fabio Vieira and Reese Nelson are 26, right? And I think we forget that. There was a question on the Ask Cast Extra last week about would you sell Fabio Vieira for five million and have a, a significant sell on clause. And it's like, what sell on clause? He's 26. This is what's ridiculous about those two. It's like your, your next contract is your last big contract. And I get it like, no one volunteers for a pay cut, but at the same time, you've probably tanked your prime contract by messing around and not leaving. So there's loads of that going on. But the way I view it, Elliot, is I think there might be a bit of a bomber to come the way we're moving here. So when we did the power rankings episode, I spoke about Aston Villa and I talked about how Aston Villa have got lots of business they want to do, but they have to sell someone.

Tim Stillman14:21A bit like us. And do remember I said they didn't go to the price for Emerson Royale from Flamengo, not a big price, not a big player wouldn't go to it because they need a winger. Well, what happens yesterday? They're linked with Aaron Wan-Bissaka. An hour later, they're linked to Jonathan David. An hour later, I mentioned they were linked with Joao Pallina. It now sounds like that's moving. So what are Villa doing? Villa are getting moving. They're doing stuff now. What does that tell you? That tells you to me. That like you've pulled out on Emmy Martinez, no one's gone for Watkins. I think Villa and Arsenal are going to compromise on a price for Konsa. Now, so what are Arsenal doing? All of a sudden, there's stories about, Myles has been offered to. Who do you think is telling everyone about Gabriel Martinelli's offer from Galatasaray? Do you think his agent's saying that? Because. I don't think he wants to go. So why would his agent say, hey everyone, we've got a really low ball offer from Galatasaray. Where do you think that story is coming from? So I think that Arsenal and Villa are getting moving on the concert deal and Arsenal are looking at it and going, have to move someone because we're probably going to meet Villa in the middle on concert. We still want to go after a winger.

Tim Stillman15:45We don't really know who that is yet, if anyone. And the fact that we're getting some of these stories about, these significant players who play significant minutes, that says to me that dominoes are beginning to fall. And I think you're seeing that across the league now.

Elliot Smith16:00Yeah. And by the way, before we get too hung up on the idea that, well, the club have to sell if they're gonna buy, Liverpool fucked it. They lost Mohammed Salah, Trent Alexander Arnold, and Konate for free. All three of them for free. Functionally for free. And they still bought Ezac, Ekatique. They're in for 130, 140 million Barkle. They bought 100 million Verts, they bought Fr Karakes and Frimpong. I'm not saying they bought the right guys, but it hasn't dented them. So let's not let's not forget the financial might that is available here. The other thing I'll say is when you win a title

Clive Palmer16:31I will say on Liverpool earlier they sold two hundred and fifty million pounds worth of players last season to spend their money. Right? W Yeah. We what the issue

Elliot Smith16:37Yeah, all right. That's that's a good counterpoint. Yeah. Mane Diaz, yeah. All right, fair enough.

Tim Stillman16:38They sold Mane, they sold Diaz, they sold Firmino, they sold Fabinho to Saudi.

Clive Palmer16:44The issue with this is this the this is the crux of this, right? So there's a way of what there's a way of working situation here. But Arsenal football club do not have a selling identity. We do not have a selling strategy. We have not sold well for many, many years. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. They are. They really are. And it's always the players that you like that f want fix the best prices. Right? So if an offer comes in for one of your players that you don't want to sell, then you have to be ready to flex and change your strategy to how you want to move your squad. Right? So there are easy sales, there are harder, more complex sales, squad wise, building wise, and you have to replace somebody if you get the wrong player that goes out the door, right? So I'm trying to look at it from a business point of view. Emotionally, we all want

Elliot Smith17:26One thing Yeah

Clive Palmer17:29The same things. Business wise. There's a price to pay for the activity we have last year, spending two fifty net last summer. We're already at about one hundred twenty, one thirty at the moment, and we've sold Norgaard and Trossard. Elliot, you tell me, mate. You tell me.

Elliot Smith17:43Yeah. No, you're right. That's fair. I'm I'm wrong there. And and here's what I would say when you win a title, you're always gonna have great affection for everybody who was on that ride with you. But you have to be willing to keep turning over the squad and refreshing it. I think one thing Pep Guardiola was great at is winning title with players and then letting them go. We bought Jesus and Zinchenko, who were important players at Manchester City. Jesus was one of the most called upon players for Pep in their title seasons, played in the critical moments, and he sold them to a rival. He was willing to turn the squad over. He was willing to refresh. And I'm not saying that's worked always because they haven't won every single title, but they won plenty of them. And granted, their financial situation is different, but it's the point that you have to be thankful and appreciative of the players that help you win things, but willing to till the soil to keep refreshing the squad. And we've done that a bit, by the way. Bruno Guimarães is a major signing that people are just, I think, overlooking because they want that shiny forward. But he's a very important and very expensive signing. I want to read you some.

Clive Palmer18:41Expensive. Very expensive.

Elliot Smith18:43Yeah, I want to read you some quotes from Mikel. Let me read you the Myles Lewis-Skelly quotes first. So he says, quote, what he likes about Mikel, Myles, quote, he had a really good preseason. We asked him to play in a different position because he played more as a number six. We obviously lacked midfielders from international duty, and I think he had a really consistent preseason. What I thought was interesting is he talked about also his that he's an emotional player, which was an interesting comment. When he was asked about the rumors of him going, he said, I don't want to comment on speculation. He's he's an he's a sensitive player. He he's emotional. Which here we go. Here's the exact quote about Myles Lewis-Skelly's speculation. Quote, it's a very emotional player. I remember when he did all the gestures on the pitch, so I'm not gonna talk about any speculation. If there is a speculation about our player, it's a good sign. That means that we attract attention and they're doing a good job. So I thought that was interesting.

Tim Stillman19:39Not unequivocal, is it?

Clive Palmer19:41Yeah.

Tim Stillman19:43He had an opportunity to be unequivocal

Elliot Smith19:43He's our player to quash it. Yeah.

Tim Stillman19:47And he wasn't.

Elliot Smith19:48Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I think that is a bit of a Rorschach test for what you're taking into the quotes, in terms of what you'll take out of them. Mm-hmm.

Clive Palmer19:55Think I think Elliot, we're sitting here in our shirts, right? Sitting here in our nylon, right? We've got our merch in our wardrobes tucked away. We have a vantage point. So do there's not many people don't want to see a night year old storming through the midfield at the burner bow and think that's great. That gives me a connection to the club. I just want to throw that to one side for this discussion because there is a business side to this which is a changing picture. And we have got the way we won the league last year was by spending and depth and squad and that allowed us to manage the second worst injuries in the league. We're looking at health and we'll talk about that a little bit later, looking at health and how we protect players. And we have a number of players that are sitting there whose contracts up in twenty eight that need to be addressed. Senior players. Havers, Odegaard, Timber, Rice, senior players. Do you think any of them want a pay cut? Right? Then that's with whenever I want to use forward and left winger, I'm just looking at the to-do list and I'm asking myself, is this doable without some pain? That's where

Elliot Smith21:02Yeah, you have to sell. First of all, you have to sell because you don't want to be Chelsea. You don't want to have forty-five players and they're all miserable and no one knows if they're gonna play and they're going to their agents and saying, What's the plan for me? That doesn't work. Somewhere between my old idea that you basically need fourteen players and you have to have a first eleven and the ridiculous notion that you should have three in every position, there's a happy medium. You have to have the right the right numbers. And, that that means sometimes having to make some hard choices. On transfers Mikel said, quote, there is more that we want to do. Every time we have an opportunity to improve the squad and bring more quality and depth to the squad, we need to do that. We are actively trying to do so. The thing with the market is that it doesn't just depend on you. And we are very clear on that. But the approach, the will, and the desire of the club, that's unquestionable. And we're going to try to do that. But we cannot promise that we're going to do it because again, it doesn't only depend on us. And Clive, this is just the reality. We know we wanted Morgan Rogers. I think a lot of people would agree not going to 117 million was correct. I think there's a discussion to be had about whether we got a bit cute or, move quickly enough to make Morgan Rogers happen. But when you think Vinny's available, you have to go for him. But now I'm left with this feeling. I would rather we not buy a forward than panic buy a forward that isn't any better than what we have because down the road maybe someone like Kruppy becomes available and you can get that player. So

Elliot Smith22:29For me, it's really just Alvarez. That's really the name that's left for me. I don't want an injai. I don't want us to go after that caliber of player. So how are you thinking about this? Mikel is saying pretty unequivocally, we want to do it, but it depends on other clubs that we're trying to do business with and that makes it sound like he's aware that that there's some challenges around whether we can execute on a strategy.

Clive Palmer22:50Yeah, I think I listened to your podcast this week. I thought it was really, really good. Fair play to both of you. I think but one of the things that Tim said was really, I agree with already messaged offline. The last two weeks could have changed everything for us. Maybe even the last week. So whatever circumstance of environment you think there is today, it's going to change very, very, very quickly and rapidly. Where people have they've it's not just us who've got to pay the piper. Other teams have some serious selling to do. They're posturing right now, but when the when the stuff hits the stuff of the fan, they will they will soon have to change their position. So we are in a real position of brinkmanship at the moment. I don't know how it's gonna go, Elliot. I have to be honest with you. I am I confident we're gonna come out this the right side. I'll be honest with you, I'm not as confident as I have been in the past. But that's not my that's not my job. My job is to hope that we get the right team on the pitch, the right squad on the pitch. Because the day last season I felt the league was won before the season almost started with our business we did in the summer and we need to ha I wanna have that same feeling again. One thing I will say, I learnt a lesson once about the feelings of online fans versus fans in the ground. And I remember it online. It's about Granit Shacker actually. I Granny Shacker's getting lot of stick online. And I thought, everyone hates him. I went to the ground and he c Shaka was playing, came out for warm up and he a standard ovation.

Clive Palmer24:14And I realise there can be a difference between online and in the stadium. What I will say to you, and my little experience this week, Myles Lewis-Skelly is extremely popular online and is extremely popular in the stadium. So whatever emotions that have been triggered, this is serious. If I mention this to my son, he goes off his head about it. That we can't be doing this. There's a lot of emotion around people that have grown up at the club since they're eight years of age, how they're treated. It's it's really this is not a small topic. It's indicative of our as an operation. And and he's just the poster boy of it. Maybe we have to man up and get more resilient about losing people we like. I don't know. I'm not sure I am on it, but I'm trying to look at all sides. But I will say that do not underplay how people feel live, watching and online. It's it's pretty unanimous.

Elliot Smith25:08Yeah. Yeah. Tim, before we shift gears to the football a bit, I want to get your take on this. I think we look

Tim Stillman25:15We're going to talk about football. That's no one told me about this pivot.

Elliot Smith25:21Well look, it is summer. If there is ever a time when you're allowed to just be obsessed with tran like when I bump into someone in October, November who still wants to talk about transfers, they're like an alien to me. But if you're not thinking about transfers on August thirteenth, then something's wrong with you. This is your time.

Tim Stillman25:36Got loads to do. Yeah.

Elliot Smith25:38Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of business that'll still happen. And I agree with you, Clive. I was even saying earlier this summer, this could be one of those summers like an Ozul summer where some giant clubs have some giant moves that happen late in the window and those dominoes fall and there's a market opportunity. We love that expression. I think someone still leaves Madrid, for example. Is it someone we'd want? I don't know. But there's players that are gonna leave PSG, Madrid, maybe Yep

Tim Stillman26:01Hendrick, we should be all over that, I'm afraid. But there we go.

Elliot Smith26:06Yeah, all right, well there you go. But so I will just ask you, I think consa happens. That is something I think happens, and I think we should do it, and we don't need to relitigate it because we've gone through it before. Do you believe that attacking signing is still out there for us and maybe hasn't revealed itself yet? There's a lot of internet focus on Barcla Alvarez. But the world of players is bigger than that. So d do you want to plant your flag there?

Tim Stillman26:28Yeah, I do. I don't know, I'm reading the tea leaves a little bit here, but the way the market moves, the market behaves and all of that, this feels like a tremor to me. Why are, so I'm assuming that we're the ones putting the Martinelli stories out there, right? That's my assumption. I might be wrong about that. I just can't see anywhere else it would come from. Why is that? Why are we potentially making everyone aware that we're definitely trying to sell this player? If you remember, maybe three weeks ago, Hand of Arsenal did one of those updates and just almost buried the lead in there and just said, Martin Elias up for sale, which I think we've understood for the last couple of summers like Arsenal would be open to an offer, but it feels like it's moved from open to an open to an offer to. I reckon Andrea Berta selling him like sending Istanbul brochures to him right

Tim Stillman27:31Now. And it's really nice, the phosphorus. And by the way, it is an amazing city as well. One of my favorites. Yeah, it's like, look, you can get a

Elliot Smith27:42Martinelli still has great hair, otherwise that'd be another thing you could sell him, but

Clive Palmer27:45I need to get out there quick.

Tim Stillman27:50Boat from one side of the city to the other. It's really, really nice. So so why are we doing that? And I'm assuming we are going to, looks like, Gabriel Jesus to Napoli, Fabio Vieira might go somewhere, Reese Nelson will get his wages off the books. So it just, I definitely think they're trying to make the money to go a bit higher on concert, but it just feels like there's something else brewing to me. And I don't know, just experience in this whole transfer thing. There's little bits of news that come out that don't feel like they make sense. And then 48 hours, David Ornstein drops something and you go, that's why all of that was happening. And it's just a prediction. Just, I feel it in my waters. Who it could possibly be. I don't know. But like I said, Endric at Real Madrid, whether for us, I'm not sure. That's one to keep an eye on. That kid is a serious, serious talent.

Tim Stillman28:51And if he shakes loose at Real Madrid, I think a lot of clubs will move for him.

Elliot Smith28:55Can he play off the left? Sh does he fit our build? Not

Tim Stillman29:00Really, no. He's probably more in your Alvarez mold, I'd say, but potentially more gettable. Obviously he's younger and we're in a bit of a win now phase, I think something's going to happen with him, whether it's for us, I don't know. I quite like that, but yeah, I feel something in my waters here, Elliot.

Elliot Smith29:23Last thought on that?

Clive Palmer29:24Yeah, I'm just worried I'm worried that Villa might get injured 'cause they seem to be that place that you Yeah, that was something I Yeah, that's a fair point, Tim. Yeah. Yeah. Fair same type

Elliot Smith29:27Mm. Finally we can get Ollie Watkins then. Should have should have gone for him two Januaries ago, by the way, but that's another story. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Stillman29:33But they're going for Jonathan David. They were linked with Jonathan David, so yeah.

Clive Palmer29:40Of player, isn't he? Same type of second striker player, similar profile. Yeah, th the cake is not baked, one of my lines. The cake is not baked. How the cake is being baked, I have concerns about. But you know what? Delete them concerns because we've got a new sporting director where he's now forced to not just buy seven or eight, but he's got to sell five or six. And what does that look like? And I had to be comfortable that he have ways of working that may not be comfortable sitting with me. Right? So but who what do I get? If we get the r numbers right and we get the squad construct right and we haven't got too many people with under five hundred minutes getting paid big money, unusable. Then that's that's his job. That's his job to make sure that wherever we spend we're getting effective use of those resources. And that's what he's got to do. And it's not just about buying position, it's about making sure that your highly paid players are being used and have roles, the versatility, and also you create financial room to for your to do list. That's the big pressure he's under right now. Maybe that's why we've seen some clumsy reaches into the market.

Elliot Smith30:48Yeah. My instinct based on nothing is that we probably have a bit of a surprise exit, or at least a an exit of a player that has been more closely associated with the first team, not the sort of Vieira Nelson group. That we do get consa and that I think we probably find an attacking player before this window is over. I think it's gonna happen. Whether it's one that we unanimously like, that remains to be seen. But I th I think we'll do it. If it's Pedro Neto, you're gonna have to find a new podcast host. I'm absolutely not having it. If we dip into those bins again for Pedro Neto, I'm not pulling punches. Look, I hide my opinion sometimes for fear of backlash. I'm not pulling punches if it's Pedro Neto. I do, mate. I'm no, no, no, unequivocally, no. Uh-uh, don't.

Clive Palmer31:38So you don't want the Pedro

Tim Stillman31:39I was with Romero.

Clive Palmer31:39Neto miles swap, do you? You don't want that swap though.

Elliot Smith31:41Pedro Neto for Myles, yeah, straight s straight soft. Now Jal Pedro, you could interest me. I don't think they want to move him, but that's another story altogether.

Tim Stillman31:51Is a free agent, I think, still.

Elliot Smith31:53You're about to see the best of me.

Elliot Smith35:31It was a fun game. And it was a it was a good chance to see some players come back. Mikel Merino is back. Bruno Guimarães played. I want to start though with a youngster, another youngster, and we can call him a youngster. Ethan Wineri. I thought he was great. I think he's having a great summer, Clive. I think going into this summer, people would have thought Ethan's on the chopping block, and Myles is now our central midfielder of the future. And here we are. We've spent half the podcast talking about whether Myles will be here. We haven't talked about Ethan at all. Mikel was, I think, pretty unequivocal in his praise of Ethan, of how the challenges at Marseille helped him grow as a person. Understand what he has to do. I think physically he's developed, which happens at that age, just not to me. So what do you make of Ethan Winary's trajectory? I think he is a bright spot from our preseason.

Clive Palmer36:22Yeah. I think so. And by him playing deeper, I think he's shown another side of him, right? There's been big improvements for me in Ethan and Max off the ball. There have been big improvements in both of them and that's a key thing. When you play for Mikel Arteta's team, that's a key th reason why Britt Tzolis will be playing at the weekend, without a doubt, 'cause he can do it on and off the ball. Don't even look out that direction, it's just done. And so Ethan's done really well when he came in he was just a dribble merchant, dribble get shift it left shot, a little pass here and there, heavy foot, shot, top corner, post his stamp. Now he's working, he's he's popping it, being more metronomical in his play and working both ways. So massive development for him, and it's it's the same for Max really. Massive development off the ball. Myles is a player that likes the game in front of him a lot and where he can go and get it where you're playing in the sixty get bypassed in big spaces could be not compact, he's having to run backwards and do big long runs, which is not really his game, but it's a development opportunity for him. And I think development of these those three in particular to be more rounded first team players rather than just talented footballers has been really good. What's gonna happen to them? What's gonna happen to Ethan Elliot? Don't know, right? Two a week ago we were looking

Clive Palmer37:46At Leipzig, looking at him and I've forty million quidder of Euros and potential buyback. It's all gonna come out. It's it's all gonna come out, And I do think that Arteta was more equivocal in his praise for him than maybe he was Myles, that maybe just being clever because he knew the questions were gonna come his way. And so what he said shouldn't be a barometer, what's gonna happen. What's gonna happen is what happens in the marketplace and what happens regarding the offers that we get. But as a player, he's far more rounded than he was when he was scoring these ten goals. As a surprise player, as a seventeen year old, this is a player that becomes very, very usable really quickly, and it's about his next step. Keefer, both him and Myles is a play. Myles's minutes last year was not great. Keefer's minutes last year and particularly twenty six have not been great, not been a lot of competitive adult football. And so we have a decision to make, where they are in the market. But as a footballer, I really like him. I really like him. He's growing, becoming more of a runner.

Clive Palmer38:48Which also important, improving physically and so yeah, good job. Maybe the player of the preseason. Maybe the player of the preseason.

Elliot Smith38:58And funny because you're seeing him start to do all the things you need him to do to work in that spot. And maybe Max is going through the same little moment of being a little too individualistic, not always knowing when to release it. He got beat for the goal. Julien and Max as a right hand side, not necessarily what you want in a defensive situation, but Max doesn't get close enough to Julianne and the bat what's his name? Ba batterina's able to get between them and smash it into the goal because Kepa obviously doesn't exist, but it was it was i it's a it's a learning moment for Max's trajectory and Ethan's maybe making that jump. And Mikel was asked and he said, He's been really good. Probably what happened on the field on his loan in Marseille wasn't what was expected. There was a lot of noise and change around the club, but he looks different. He looks more mature, he's incredible at that. It's what six months can do to you. It's a different experience on board to be on your own. And and that's the thing. Think of how much you change at 18, not just physically, but as a person. Six months, you can be a different person. And it sounds like Mikel is impressed with what he's seeing. And then finally he said to go through tough times and just to witness that there's another part of football that you have to be good enough to cope with. I'm very happy with what he's done in preseason. Really nice to hear. Tim, I don't think we need to go much further on Ethan, although you're certainly welcome to add to that if you want. It was

Elliot Smith40:21A mixed first half, but one thing I really liked, our press was excellent. Como wanted to play and we wouldn't let them play. And one of the things about Arsenal, when Arsenal are great under Mikel, the one thing that's been consistent along with our defensive solidity is how we press. And the press was excellent. We won the ball back. Sometimes it can be hard to judge that because when the team is doing strange shit like the keeper just kicking it into Myles face and letting us score a goal. It can look very easy. But Como wanted to play. We wouldn't let them play and our press was fantastic. And that's nice to see because it's it's so linked with our identity.

Tim Stillman40:54Yeah, absolutely. I just felt overall, we lacked the kind of final action other than when Como gave us the ball in their penalty area a couple of times, which was very nice of them. But it just felt like it looked a lot tighter. The players were closer together. There was a bit more one touch. There was a lovely move at some point in the first half with Eze. And it's like Ev, Eze and Ethan and it was all one touch and it was all nice flicks and stuff. And you start to think, yeah, this, is what it's supposed to look like. And probably because someone like Ethan's had some preseason games, he's getting to his level. You introduce a player like Eze and I felt that in the, mean, we're going to the second half. I felt that in the second half in particular. It's like, yeah, yeah. This beginning to look like Arsenal again. We, we perhaps weren't as sharp in the final action, but yeah. The press was definitely there and I think this being an evening game probably helped that along. If this game had happened a couple of hours, it was still warm in the stadium, but it's about 35 degrees in London yesterday. When I left for the game, my word, it's one of those, the heat in London, I know we have a lot of American listeners who are like, it's always hot here and it's like.

Tim Stillman42:18The thing is, heat in London is if you ever stood behind a bus with the engine running, it's that, it was like the second I opened the front door, it was like, my God, it hits you. Was really hot in London yesterday. So for them to be able to do that in particular, but it was really hot and it was the middle of the afternoon in the, in the previous game. It, yeah, that, was a really pleasing part of it. And obviously Como. Played into that a bit and they play out from the back quite a lot. But yeah, and really good to see someone like Myles as well. And, that I think it was for the Jesus chance. It's Ethan, isn't it, who makes a sliding tackle to get to go and get the ball. Yeah, there were little things there that just began to look a bit more like us and the press was definitely one of them.

Elliot Smith43:08Yeah, and I have to say, it is funny how we talk about players because I was gonna say something like nice for young Theo Julian to get some time on the pitch, and he probably won't play this season and who knows if his future is at Arsenal, but he got to play in front of a full house at the Emirates, and that's great for young Theo Julian. And Theo Julian is six months younger than Ethan Winary. He's eighteen. He's two years older than Max Dowman. We have this weird thing that when a young player hasn't played it all for us, they're young so-and-so. But when we've seen them a bit, now they're like, well, he's not gonna make it. And it's like, Theo Julian is basically in the age group of Myles and Ethan, essentially, essentially, right? You just see the difference in trajectory. It's an interesting thing for me. Clive, the star of the show, though, and the guy who was top our stocks rising in the app by a mile is a 16 year old. But interestingly, this time, not Max Down, it was Marley Salmon. Sixteen for a center back is twelve. Right. It's like it's it's not sixteen. It's it's so young. And he is he is phenomenal. I realize you can get over you can get a little over exuberant in how you praise young players when you first see them and that it takes time. If he was eighteen, I'd be saying maybe we don't need consa. At sixteen, I don't think you can rely on a sixteen year old center back at the top level, but in terms of the skills

Elliot Smith44:29Looks Saliba-esque. There was a shoulder drop in midfield where he took it past someone. He's so comfortable and effortless on the ball. We didn't have to see him do a lot of defending, but he moves cleanly across the pitch for someone with a lanky body. What a what an incredible talent. And not something we've seen a lot. We haven't we haven't developed a center back in the from the academy, but this one looks like one that we that we found a gem, Well let me say something. We haven't developed a center

Clive Palmer44:53Yeah, I think he's the most god given.

Elliot Smith44:56Back from the academy in the modern in recent times. I wanna correct the r yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I wanna I wanna correct the record. We haven't seen that happen

Clive Palmer45:00Yes, best be careful, mate. The comments will be throwing out Tony Adams at ya.

Elliot Smith45:06Recently. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a special talent. And another young special talent that's breaking into the game, Bruno Guimarães played as well. Tim, our first look at him. And he did one thing that we're familiar with him doing at Newcastle, which is lose the ball, get mad, then kick a guy. Which let me tell you, he's k he you could put some money on him to lead the league in yellow cards this season, playing in the red and white, but he also was very good. He looked very good, effortlessly very good, and doing it not with the midfielders he's gonna be playing with. I thought Odegaard was excellent and I thought Bruno was excellent, and that was really encouraging and those two really stood out to me as players who look almost ready already for a season. And so I'm concerned about how ready we'll be for the season, but I think those two will play some solid minutes in the community shield and then be absolutely raring to go for Como and pretty exciting. So y feel free to talk about both or just Bruno given that it's our first look at him, but I was impressed.

Tim Stillman46:08Yeah, very I think Bruno's only got one mode in terms of how he plays. I don't think he has a preseason mode. I don't think he has I j I'll just run about forty-five minutes and, make sure I don't get cramp. I think he only operates in one mode basically and we saw that. We saw that desire to go and get the ball back quickly. But it's the passing, like the Punching the ball between the lines. All the stuff we've read and we just we just saw it's like the ball always goes forwards. There's there's not much pushing the food around the plate. I'm I'm really that that assist he had for Martinelli in the World Cup, 94th minute high pressure moment. He picks the right pass on the edge of the penalty area. It's it's one of those sometimes you just get a player and you're just like I know what he does, I know what we need, and there's fusion there between the two. It's a bit like that that summer where Chelsea signed Fabrigas, who we might come on to, and Diego Costa at

Tim Stillman47:22The in the same summer, and you are like, I know how this is gonna go. And then every second goal Chelsea score is Fabrigas. With a ball from deep to Diego Costa, who chests it down and smashes it in, and you're like, Yep, that's exactly what I thought was gonna happen. And I think there's gonna be a lot of that with Bruno. It's just I either know or I have read that he does all this stuff, and within two minutes of him playing, you're like, Yep, he does all that stuff, and it's great. And I th this is a very slam dunk telegraph signing for me.

Elliot Smith47:57Yep. Yeah, I think he's great personally and I'm excited to see more of him with more of the first team players. I will tell you that due to technical issues, we've let Clive take the rest of the pod off. Gets his, forty-five minutes of action today, limbering up, getting ready for the season. You don't want to overextend Clive. He's a key part of what we want to be doing, this season. So important that we get him fit and firing. But Tim, yeah, the Odegaard thing, he's he's a very good player and we've known that. But I think As you watch the player, what people really want is to see that drive and power in the final third that had been in his game. And we saw him go beyond the striker for the near red card in the was it the Dortman game? I think it was Dortman, yeah. And in this game, he has a beautiful driving run where he plays it out to the left to Mosquera. That's fine, right? He sprays the ball out left beautifully, but then urgently runs ahead.

Elliot Smith48:59To get to the top of the box. He gets it back from Mosquera, plays it out to Vieira, who doesn't finish because why would he? But moral of the story is like the drive through midfield is there. And we saw a bit of that developing with Norway. He just looks fit. And I keep going back to some things I've I've heard even from players in the past, which is just when you play unfit, i it's unfair because if you don't play, you're a croc. If you play hurt and you're not at your best. People write you off. He looks fit. That drive is in his game. And I was really impressed with that little moment, that cameo, but just the bits we've seen of him so far this summer. I'm excited to see more of that.

Tim Stillman49:39Yeah, definitely. He's one of the players. He's one of the potentially very key players who we shouldn't be worried about in terms of fatigue, for example, because and I think the same Mikel Moreno. He looked I thought he looked very good when he came on as well. And you're like, yeah, he missed a few months last season. Obviously, with Odegaard is it's all about staying fit and building that rhythm. To me, every time he comes back from one of these, he always looks. He means business, and that's where I felt, that's where it made last season so difficult to judge for him, I think, because he kept coming back and you're like, here's Odegaard, and then he gets injured again. Whereas two seasons ago, I think he just dropped off form-wise and we tried to come up with any number of ways, new baby, injury, blah, blah, blah, might've been those things, but we don't really know. Where but he did drop off, whereas last season, I don't think he did. I think he just he just wasn't available. And he just looks like someone who he wants to make up for that last time that he knows that and he's very aware of that. He's another one who's probably playing for his next contract in a way, maybe even if it's just the size of it and the shape of it. So.

Tim Stillman50:57But he's looked really, really sharp. That's what you really, really notice in these pre-season games as well. Who looks like they've just picked it straight, all the muscle memory is all there straight away. And look, maybe the signing of Bruno's lit a bit of a fire under him as well, because this is a guy who is a great progressive passer and punches between the lines. And I think Lewis did a great job on the AskBlog player profile.

Elliot Smith51:24New player pod? Mm-hmm.

Tim Stillman51:26Looking at his stats and saying Bruno profiles much more closely to Odegaard than any of our other midfielders. And if I'm Odegaard, I'm probably saying, yeah, we should have two of those. I want to be the other one type thing rather than this is a kind of replacement for me. There's lots of competition for his place. Merino has gone away and had a great World Cup. Havertz is there. Eze is there. Ethan's still there. It's a very crowded part of our team and he will always be a big part of that but I think the question for him is does he come back to being one of the biggest parts of that like he was a couple of seasons ago does he come back to being one of those untouchables and again I think he's a highly self-aware guy and he will be having those thoughts himself.

Elliot Smith52:20Yeah. As a final bit on this game, I don't think we need to go too big on it. I do want to quickly ask you about the community shield, but Christos Tzolis came on and impressed again. And, you look at the penalties by the way, and just the power and the confidence he strikes it. Now look, I think in preseason players can just score ten out of ten penalties. N non he didn't, but the rest of them. And the penalties were well taken, but he looked good in general. His corner kick delivery again, very good, and again, maybe you want to throw a big body Deckwin Rice into the box and let him use his power there. I don't think Soli's delivery is necessarily quite as good as Rice's, but it's good and you can use it. And if Rice isn't playing, you're not left without an option there. But as much as we all want that top drawer attacking signing, and I still think we need it, certainly the star of the preseason is this new arrival. He got in early enough to be with the group. I think he will start against Coventry and I think he's earned it. He's he looks very exciting. He at least you don't want to go too early, especially in preseason, on evaluating a player, but the numbers were great in Belgium. He slotted right in with us. He looks like an Arsenal player and from what I've seen, I'm very encouraged.

Tim Stillman53:30Yeah, I can already tell you who's winning Arsenal.com player of the month for August. It's always the new guy and it will be him again.

Elliot Smith53:38Nanymake. Sorry. It's y Tzolis, yeah.

Tim Stillman53:42I make you right in terms of the community shield, whether he's stuck, the community shield, I think we are going to have to treat it like a friendly in terms of there'll be lots of changes because they're like, we've got to get Saka minutes. We've got to get Rice minutes. We got to increase load on some guy like that. That is just going to be a, don't know how many substitutions you're allowed, but it's going to be close to the whole team. So, whether he starts that, whether he finishes that we've seen, haven't we? Some players play the first 30, some players play the final 30 for the minutes they need. So who starts the community shield is probably less of a because there'll be a lot of game sharing, but I'm with you. I think he's starting the Coventry game. I think he's, he's earned the shirt for the first couple of games of the season. Obviously didn't go to the World Cup, has played all of preseason. He's someone who just gives us something a little bit different that our opponents won't know that much about just yet. And I think there's a real value in that, in having that

Elliot Smith54:45Yeah, I agree.

Tim Stillman54:46Kind of that level of surprise. So, yeah, really impressed with him. Again, I think you're right. I think he might have, quote unquote, preseason. But before moving on to the community shield, Elliot, I do think we have avoided one, or not avoided, maybe forgotten one subject. And I think it's more of a question that I should ask you. The manager in the other dugout, dressed a lot like our manager. I don't know if they coordinated on that. Yeah, exactly.

Elliot Smith55:09Yeah. What do they say? Dress for the job you want.

Tim Stillman55:17I know how you feel about the player and all of that. Mean. Did that get you in the feels, Cesc Fabregas in the dugout at the Emirates? And what he said

Elliot Smith55:28Yeah. The the funny thing about football

Tim Stillman55:31Afterwards as well, I think he's always going to be nice about Arsenal. And listen, managers are always going to be nice about their opponents. They're not going to turn up and say, no, they're rubbish. But the kind of little monologue he did in the post-match press conference, I think was, it's probably reading too much into it to say, auditioning or whatever. But he spoke very well, didn't he?

Elliot Smith55:53Yeah, of course he did. Look, the one thing about Sasfabergas is people have pretty muted opinions. So, you c you can handle this in a in a rational way. Yet look,

Tim Stillman55:59Not divisive at all.

Elliot Smith56:02To the people that think he's a snake and hate him, they will only ever see him that way. And to the people who are more aligned with my perspective, you'll only ever see him this way. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. Due to the availability of watching and consuming arsenal from where I live. As much as I was a supporter during the Invincibles era, I could only be a supporter at a remove. It was an attenuated relationship, but the relationship really became a love affair in earnest in the era when Ses Fabrigas broke into the team and he was the first player I loved. I won't relitigate how he left except to say that it didn't ruin it for me. And I maintained that affection and I regret that we didn't go back and get him from Barcelona when he came back into the league. I think that was a mistake. Setting aside the past I think it's it was always clear that he a phenomenal football brain. He seems like he's a talented young manager, and I think he will wind up in a big job somewhere. I'm in no hurry for Mikel leave. I would like if you offered me Mikel for fifteen years, I'd take it. I don't know that Mikel wants to be that kind of manager. So of course, Sesk would be the kind of player you'd or manager that you would think of. He did speak brilliantly. A couple of things that stood out to me about what he said. First of all, just that he was willing to say

Elliot Smith57:14We have a similar project at Como, but of course at a much, much lower level. He acknowledged the level at Arsenal is much bigger, which I thought was interesting. The Como fans may not love that, even if it is an evident truth. One thing that stuck out is he said, I got to meet these players and they're just a great group of guys, like a really likable, good group of guys. And I think you hear that a lot from people, just that it's a good group. And you wanna you kinda wanna keep it a good group. He praised the club for its discipline in sticking with this project. He said, now you lose three games and everyone wants to change the manager and the club had the courage not to do that. So I thought he spoke well. Look, it was actually less emotional for me than I expected it to be. Maybe because it was not a competitive game, maybe because it's just

Tim Stillman57:55In the stadium, there was nothing. I don't think the stadium announcer said anything, which was possibly deliberate because they don't know what kind of. And, it's a friendly as well. They don't want to potentially open him up to anything. But there was nothing either way, actually, which was what I was quite surprised by.

Elliot Smith58:18He is one of the big players in our club's history, recent history, and it kinda came and went without much affair. I think ultimately I expected it to be more emotional than it was. It wasn't. It didn't really hit me in the feels. He's he's just not that guy anymore. He's not that young kid who was, spitting and throwing pizza at Fergie. He's just not that guy anymore. And and for me I think it's more about what he's doing as a manager and keeping an eye on him, but the emotions weren't as strong as I expected. Were they for you?

Tim Stillman58:48Yeah, well, I'm because I am actually one of those people who's a little bit on the fence about it all. Like I, I understand

Elliot Smith58:57It's not allowed.

Tim Stillman58:57Why we didn't bring him back in 2014 with the squad we had at the time. We were overloaded with creative midfielders and we'd I can understand why Arsene Benga didn't want to just suddenly blow it all up for the guy that left. Obviously, they're going to Chelsea thing. That's this seems to happen. White a lot and I think it's happened this summer as well where there are players that want to join us more than they want to join Chelsea but they still end up at Chelsea by hook or by crook. So obviously that's always, look that's always going to taint it. Do I take that personally? Not really to be honest but at the same time it just does it taints it a little bit and wherever the quote-unquote fault lines are. And went there and won the Premier League straight away. You can't really question what happened there. But I tell you what would be not because I felt a little bit like that about Henry, right? I wasn't entirely okay with the way he not the way he left, but his last couple of seasons, I had some issues, right? When we were away from home Saturday 3pm and the game wasn't on TV, he wasn't always the same player.

Tim Stillman1:00:13In those last couple of seasons. He didn't always put it in, I don't think. And I felt a little bit like, that feels like it compromises it. But then what does he do? He comes back. He has that moment against Leeds. And you're like, brilliant. Have anything, any doubts I was feeling, totally washed away. I'm literally wearing a Thierry Henry Francher right now. I do think the romantic in me does think like whenever it is that Arteta leaves, it would be a lovely story if. Came back as manager and was successful and again that would completely and utterly wipe away any tarnishing of that legacy and that would actually be a really nice thing.

Elliot Smith1:00:53Yeah. Yeah, I guess I just feel less about it than I thought I would. And maybe it's because I'm so now invested in Mikel and he has so thoroughly become the icon of the club, the representative of the club and in such a brilliant way that I just I'm not I'm not invested in that story at the moment. If we still do Niamory managing the club and Sesk showed up with his Como team that might be a different story. So look, I think the last little bit here is just that we have the community shield on Sunday. Viktor Gyokeres obviously thinks it's a very important game. I think it works like this, and I think Paul made this point on the instant reaction quite elegantly. This is a game that matters for the team that didn't win the league more than it matters for the team that did win the league. And especially at City, where it's Enzo Moresca's first chance to make a Mikhael Arteta had to take the community shield seriously after we won the FA Cup. He had to. In a way that Pep Guardiola did not, right? And in a way, winning it, I think, helped vault us on to improved future. I may be misremembering that candidly. I don't remember stuff very well. But my point is Enzo Morescat needs to.

Elliot Smith1:02:18Show we're ready to go punch Arsenal in the mouth and do what Pep did and go toe to toe with them and little bro them and you whatever. Whereas Mikel Arteta can point to the gold patch on the sleeve and say, we're Premier League champions. This is a friendly for us. What I wouldn't do is I wouldn't overextend any players who aren't ready to be in a competitive fixture for the sake of the pride of this game. So we can afford to not win it without taking a hit to our credibility in a way that City would like to win it to establish that Enzo Moresca is ready to carry on the legacy of Pep. For I don't think there's any world where we can be ready for that game at the highest competitive level. What I do think we need to do is at some point in that game have a rough first eleven on the pitch together for 15 or 20 minutes or so so that they can be on the pitch four days later, five days later. We're n we're s what, eight days out from the league starting. So for me, at least find a period of the sh the community shield game where you've got eleven people on the pitch who vaguely resemble an eleven you could put out for Coventry. That that that would be my goal, Tim, and I think that would be sufficient.

Tim Stillman1:03:29Yeah, definitely the pride of this game. Long term means absolutely nothing like who won the Community Shield last season? No, but I think Palace won it on penalties. No, I didn't watch it.

Elliot Smith1:03:39I don't know. Did they? It means me.

Tim Stillman1:03:43However, when we won it in 2023 and we beat City that felt important for Arsenal because we've just been in a title race with the for the first time they did little bro us a little bit in that title race, but. So it felt like I think it's Trossard got a last minute equaliser and they did celebrate it and it did feel like significant. Whereas, yeah, yeah,

Elliot Smith1:04:03Yes. Yes. That sounds familiar.

Tim Stillman1:04:09Yeah. Whereas on this occasion, it wouldn't be as much, obviously, you don't, like you say, City will be looking to land a bit of a blow. For me, this is just because of the World Cup and everything, and I think it will be the same for them. It it has to be about bringing some of those players back and getting rice and sack of their 20 minutes and can Marina go up to half an hour? Can Ryre do 90? It's still fitness is going to have to be the biggest part of it, but you're right. There does have to be a period of the game where maybe the team that's going to start against Coventry or looks like it's going to start against Coventry is going to be together. Whether that's the first 20 minutes, the last 20 minutes. Again, we've seen a mixed approach to that in preseason about the sections of games where we go really strong. Felt like against Como, we prioritized going stronger in the last half an hour. And I wonder if that's a bit of a portent for what we might see on Sunday, that it will be 60 minutes, rice comes on, soccer comes on, perhaps someone like Bruno comes on at half time, I wouldn't mind betting that we try to look our strongest in the final half an hour of the game. And look,

Tim Stillman1:05:25Going to be there. I'm going to look forward to gloating at the, I hesitate to use the plural Manchester City fans. It's quite remarkable. Manchester City, very good at selling, but not very good at selling tickets, not as good as we are. If we're talking about who's good at selling in the Premier League when it comes to tickets, Arsenal have got Manchester City and everyone else over a barrel there. It will be a complete Arsenal takeover. It's going to be about 70 % Arsenal in the stadium and it would be quite nice to enjoy that to the absolute maximum. Really, is like you said, this is fitness. We've still got to introduce players into the group who haven't played yet. And that has to be the main thing, getting ready for Coventry.

Elliot Smith1:06:19Yep. And there will be some players that get some minutes that we haven't seen yet, but I don't think they're players that will have a shot in hell at starting against Coventry. I wouldn't think. But can you get

Tim Stillman1:06:29No, no. But I've been in the squad.

Elliot Smith1:06:32Let's put it this way, can you get some right sided defense out there that isn't Marley Salmon and Theo Julian? That i is it gonna be Mosquera and Ben White? Probably.

Tim Stillman1:06:42Yeah, I'm certain it is,

Elliot Smith1:06:45Which by the way, for anyone that doesn't think we need consa, until he's in and bedded in, that's our right hand side of our defense. And after Coventry, it was it Villa and Chelsea? Almost right away? Where am I am I getting that wrong? What what that's this feels very easily d searchable.

Tim Stillman1:07:02We've got the real why so yeah the other way thirty first chelsea home on the sixth of september

Elliot Smith1:07:11Yeah, so Villa, Chelsea, Sunderland away, Brighton away, leads so I like you'd like there to be some stable right hand side of the defense, let's put it that way, that gets some minutes together.

Tim Stillman1:07:24I think Rice and Saka, assuming they don't get injured, I think they're all going to be in the squad for the commentary game. On the bench. But I think that you'll see them all at Villa Park, particularly because that game's a Monday night as well, which probably helps because it gives us quite a big gap between game one and game two.

Elliot Smith1:07:44It's also a good point too though that since we play Sunday Friday, he may give fewer minutes to players in the community shield. Tzolis might play twenty minutes fewer than you'd expect, and Bruno might play fifteen minutes fewer. Yeah, yeah,

Tim Stillman1:07:57Yeah, because he's done a whole preseason

Elliot Smith1:07:59Yeah. Exactly. So we'll see. Look, I'll put it to you this way. People are gonna have big opinions based on whatever happens in that game. But I cannot emphasize this enough. It is a game that matters way more for Mareska and the message he wants to send that does for us. Would it be nice? To wind up winning it and Moreska gets off to a stuttering start and is under pressure from day one, sure it'd be nice. I just don't think it matters. So we'll see. Hopefully some transfer news percolates, between now and the Coventry game. But the way it looks is we think we know the group we're going into the season with, and it's it's just not a group that's gonna be ready. I'm sorry. I said this is my headline and the instant reaction. It's gonna be an interesting start to the season. We're gonna see lineups we've never seen before. We're gonna see players we weren't expecting to count on play real minutes until we're bedded in, until players are ready, until the transfers are done. And we're gonna have to accept that and not moan about it really, because at this point post World Cup, I think that's gonna be the case for a lot of the big clubs. And there could be some very, very strange results. You could argue the best time to play the big clubs is early in the season when they're just as underbaked as we are, although with Chelsea they have

Elliot Smith1:09:09Seventy two players. So some of them have to be fit. We'll see. Okay. I think we'll leave it there. We had a lot of technical issues with this episode, so I just want to get it out. We may get a Friday night clive to you tomorrow. We'll certainly get an instant reaction to you on Sunday and a main pod on Monday. Tim, thank you.

Tim Stillman1:09:23My pleasure as always.

Elliot Smith1:09:24Go ahead and let us know what you think of the app, by the way. Still want to get that into the best possible shape to work for you and hopefully just be an enjoyable thing to vote for stocks all season long, because we're gonna keep a running tally of and you can check it in the app, which would be fun. Anyway, thanks for being here. And and the season is approaching. If you consider the community shield the start of the season, then the season is here. But we'll see you either way. We love you, and we will talk to you after. Arsenal 10 said